In Macssistance’s 2 years of existence, the most read and re-read article is by far my “5 Reasons CrossFit is Crap” post. In fact, 700 of you clicked this link its first day on the web. Most of you had nasty things to say. Some of you even had valid points, though most were simply outcries of anger from a sensitive cult that has taken a few too many sips of the CF kool-aid.
Now, before you get mad and start lambasting me with more ridiculous comments, allow me to revisit my post from more than a year ago with some great points I recently picked up from Chris Shugart of www.tmuscle.com. Shugart is a little nicer to CrossFit than I am (and honestly a little more tactful). With that being said, he brought out some quotes that I have not yet come across in my studies of CrossFit proponents and critics. These are 3 men I greatly respect, as does anyone who knows a lick about the strength and conditioning field. I have had the privilege of hearing two of them speak, and I hold very few in higher regards than Alwyn Cosgrove as I have mentioned in previous posts. With that being said, allow me to highlight what Cosgrove and others caution those who are considering subscribing to the CrossFit phenomenon.
Cosgrove: “A recent CrossFit workout was 30 reps of snatches with 135 pounds. A snatch is an explosive exercise designed to train power development. Thirty reps is endurance. You don’t use an explosive exercise to train endurance; there are more effective and safer choices. Another one was 30 muscle-ups. And if you can’t do muscle-ups, do 120 pull-ups and 120 dips. It’s just random; it makes no sense. Two days later the program was five sets of five in the push jerk with max loads. That’s not looking too healthy for the shoulder joint if you just did 120 dips 48 hours ago.”
Mike Boyle: “I think high-rep Olympic lifting is dangerous. Be careful with CrossFit.”
Charles Poliquin: “If you try to do everything in your workout, you get nothing. CrossFit is different, and maybe even fun for some people, but it’s not very effective. No athlete has ever gotten good training like that.”
In many of the responses garnered from my previous CrossFit critique, my CSCS credentials were questioned (feel free to contact the NSCA if you wish), as was my practical knowledge due to an online picture (I never claimed to be a body builder). Feel free to argue my knowledge - I’m well aware that I’m a virtual unknown in this field. But you can’t attach the same sentiment to the likes of Cosgrove, Boyle, or Poliquin. They are experts who’ve literally changed what we know about strength and conditioning - and yet, we have the same opinions of CrossFit.
So enjoy the WOD’s, CFitters. You will be in good shape, have good strength, endurance, blah, blah, blah. But that does not erase the fact that CrossFit has some very ineffective methods, as well as some dangerous approaches.
Published under: Endurance Training, Macssistance Updates, Physique Training, Sports TrainingTags: Alwyn Cosgrove • Charles Poliquin • crossfit • Crossfit is crap • Mike Boyle
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This post was written on the Tuesday, June 22nd, 2010 at 11:50 am and categorized under Endurance Training, Macssistance Updates, Physique Training, Sports Training. You can follow the ongoing discussion by subscribing to the RSS 2.0. You can leave a reply, or Trackback.
My apologies, I do not wish to trample any further over your credentials, or the opinions of respected professionals in the field.
This being said, I do feel that your OPINION is somewhat dogmatic.
CF works for me, and many others I know. It is, in MY personal opinion, the healthiest and most effective fitness “regime” I have ever been a part of. Many of the better run gyms do actually follow a thought out program, and are not as random as it may appear from an outsiders perspective. As for trying “to do everything in your workout”, well, that is sort of a vague statement is it not? Does that refer to mixing strength with met-con, or…what? Where are the specifics?
I have NEVER been as athletically fit as I have been since I began my trek down the CF junkies path. I’m not saying I have the aptitude to go gold at the Olympics, but then, I never did. My training has concentrated on proper form and safe practices from the very beginning, and has continued to do so ever since.
I find it almost funny how hated CrossFit is amongst certain groups in the fitness community, especially given that some of them are the top heavy gorillas I see stomping from weight bench to weight bench at the local Oz Fitness who are causing themselves damage due to their own incorrect training methods.
I am not saying you are a member of the lower primate branch, but I can’t understand why there can’t be room enough in the world for you people to allow for us to be just as hardworking and dedicated.
I have my own physical and mental proof about the effectiveness of my training methods. I have yet to hear from you any conclusive scientific evidence to suggest to me that it is INeffective.
Without any probative information, your opinion does not hold a whole lot of solid meaning to people who have personally experienced the benefits and tracked their progression numerically.
At times, I think it bothers some other professionals that most of us CrossFitters push ourselves to be better for no other reason than we have the drive to. There is not track meet for me, there is no training season. I do it just for myself because I love it.
I respect that it doesn’t work for everyone…but to simply say it doesn’t work is, well, generalized tunnel vision.
Not to be cheesy, but hey, can’t we all just get along?
AJ - I never get offended by comments. One of the jobs of a writer is to bring out emotion, and one of the jobs of a blog is to share ideas. Whether people agree with me or not, this is happening at macssistance.com, so I’m happy
Thank you for taking part in the discussion. Since you asked, I’d like to give you some of the scientific evidence that is out there on some inefficiencies with Crossfit training. We’ll start with high-repetition Olympic lifting.
Olympic lifts are performed to train linear, explosive power. This means movements will be short, quick bursts, with the motor neurons firing at a higher-than-normal rate of speed. The body reacts to the onslaught of exercise by releasing phosphocreatine to engage ATP - which allows our muscles to powerfully contract. After about 7-10 seconds, the body temporarily depletes itself of releasable phosphocreatine. For this reason, experienced strength coaches who teach Olympic lifts usually have their athletes perform no more than 6 reps. If the purpose of Olympic style lifting is to train the body to move more powerfully (quicker, and with high force), then using weight light enough to move 10-25 times is obviously too light, and thus, the Olympic lift is used as a calorie burner rather than a builder of power.
Why is this bad? In a word: dangerous.
When the body fatigues, it produces at an inferior level to what it is truly capable of. Even with extended training, no one is able to sustain true explosive power over a long period of time. Olympic lifts such as the Clean and the Snatch are dangerous to the back, knees, and shoulders when performed past the phase of phosphocreatine release.
I hope this makes sense. However, sense you are obviously a fitness guru, I suggest you read Essentials of Strength and Conditioning Training. This will provide you with a good reference on the differing energy systems, the subsystems within the aerobic and anaerobic systems, and safe, effective ways to train in such a way.
As for the kipping pull-ups, I have no doubt you have gotten stronger at true pull-ups. In all likelihood, I was a little hard on the kip, as it does have its place. I would have no problem with it if performers were taught to let themselves down slowly. Perhaps your Crossfit instructor does teach you to do so. The videos I have seen on Crossfit’s website and on Youtube, however, have lifter’s in a virtual free fall. This is ineffective as it does not allow an eccentric contraction to take place. Eccentric contractions help reduce injuries by strengthening the stabilizing and antagonist muscles of any given movement.
I hope this explains how, from a research-based view, I have some problems with Crossfit. But let me say this: if it gets you in the gym and you enjoy it, keep doing it. But please, be careful, read credible research, such as that found in The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research produced by the National Strength and Conditioning Association. Sip the Kool-aid, don’t gulp it.
But sure, we can all get along
Thanks again A.J., for reading and commenting. Feel free to do so again.
What Crossfitters misunderstand is that no criticism is made of them doing either GPP, plyo, metcon, power or oly lifting. All of that was around before Glassman came along. As I see it, the criticism of Crossfit is that it pretends that it invented all that stuff.
Clearly, Crossfit is just a gimmick to get people training. More specifically, paying Glassman for a certificate. Good on him. Its the American way.
Unfortunately, the Crossfit WODs are not always that beneficial. The example of Olympic lifting for reps should set off alarm bells to serious trainers. The cookie cutter approach overall is another thing which puts the efficacy of Crossfit as a training system in doubt. How can a 38 year old house wife and an elite athlete perform the same workout and both get a benefit? Crossfit’s answer is “scalability”. But no real guidance is given as to how to “scale” a workout. If it is left up to the individual then they might as well come up with their own workout as well.
The pseudo-science of Crossfit is laughable and all part of the gimmick. I’m surprised Glassman does not come out wearing a white lab-coat carrying a clipboard. Doesn’t anyone wonder why he looks like such a wreck? Okay, I challenge him to any “modality” over any “time domain” to see if his system works. I won’t hold my breath waiting for the reply.
By all means, go ahead and do your Crossfit workouts, but don’t try to tell me that your workout is better than mine or that your workout is somehow “elite” or that you are an “athlete”. You’re just doing calisthenics with your shirt off.
Good point Aussie. I started following the crossfit WODS a few years ago, but I could never be sold completely on them mainly because the chief salesman, has a bit of a gut and a noticeable limp. I figured these workouts didn’t really work for him. Also, the folks that are shown doing the WODS on videos are all 20 somethings who are in pretty good shape already, and are coming from other athletic backgrounds. So, it’s hard to tell how much crossfit actually did for them.
I’m 46, unathletic (several years out of training) and overweight with a chronically dodgy knee and I started Crossfit two months ago.
In that time I’ve lost 14 lbs, toned up considerably and my knee has stopped hurting. I train at a Crossfit ‘box’ so my experience might not be reflective of someone trying to do this stuff on their own.
I think it would be difficult to learn to Clean and Jerk from the internet and I can see a potential for injury in anyone trying to do so.
I think some of your criticisms might be valid but these debates remind me of stuff from the martial arts community on who has the best punching technique or whatever. You can pick holes in absolutely anything if you try. The question is ‘does it work?’ and ‘does it suit you?’
Personally I find the intensity of the workouts much preferable to a conventional gym slog and I enjoy the relatively cheap personal training and social aspect of Crossfit. You talk to people at these classes, which I never did in 20 years of the gym.
This group mentality encourages me to stick with the programme.
Yes, there may be some questions over high rep Olympic lifting but I’m not aware of anyone at my Crossfit gym having suffered injuries. The reverse is true. Many people have found chronic problems getting better.
There’s also a lot of low rep Olympic lifting, which I’ve found very interesting and beneficial. You just won’t get taught that at an average gym.
That said, people will get injured doing Crossfit, as they get injured doing anything.
But how many people cripple themselves in normal gyms? At least Crossfit - if you attend a Crossfit gym - is intensively instructed. Go into LA Fitness, look around at people doing their flyes and curls and wince.
So Crossfit is at least an improvement on the standard model of chain gym - one induction lesson and off you go.
I agree there is pseudo science involved in Crossfit, though that doesn’t mean it has nothing of value to say. And the rest of the fitness industry is hardly a bulls$$t free zone. At least Crossfit is open to questioning its techniques. It is not a fixed system but a work in progress.
It’s also, and this is the key thing, a lot of fun. By changing the workouts all the time it keeps you mentally engaged.
It might not be the best all-round fitness programme I’ve done. I would say that was Judo. It is,however, a very good fitness programme and miles better than anything we have on offer in the UK at the moment.
Mark Barrowcliffe, from the sounds of it you would have benefitted from doing any workout at all. If you just jogged around the park for 40 minutes a day for two months and did push ups and sits ups when you got home, you’d be fitter than if you did nothing.
Crossfit is better than nothing - but that is not much of an achievement.
Crossfit is not worse than people crippling themselves in normal gyms - that’s not much of an achievement either.
Crossfit uses olympic and power lifts which are new to some people and fun. But olympic and power lifting were always there and Crossfit didn’t invent either. Look at the videos of the recent Crossfit Games and see how poorly those competitors perform snatches and presses. What’s the point???
Crossfit planning seems completely random. If it so good, when will we see a sport won by someone who trains completely in Crossfit? Answer: never.
I’ve been following the CrossFit phenomenon ever since a friend got into it a couple of years ago. While he has seen results, I can’t help but notice the drama surrounding workouts: the puking, the collapsing, the sort of reality-show swooning atmosphere, esp. at competitions. Here’s one thing I don’t understand, and it sent up an early red flag: why are the barbell plates more rubber than iron? At first glance, for instance, it might appear that a 135-lb. girl has just squat pressed her body weight 21 times - until she drops the bar and the plates halfway collapse. Is this because weight is thrown around so much, or perhaps they get a break on insurance (?) - or (what first occurred to me) is it a shrewd marketing strategy to show someone lifting what appears to be proportionally impossible amounts of weight?
Opinions?
As a footnote, I dropped by my friend’s CrossFit location a few months ago (briefly, to drop off some work-related stuff) and owner/trainer was late opening up because, according to one of patrons waiting out front, “she got caught up at the chiropractor’s” - and I thought to myself HA, you were right about this stuff being terrible for joints. For all we know, there may be a whole subset of people (CF population) in for a hell of a lot of arthritic problems in the near future…
First off I do not train in crossfit. I am 40 and have started college fulltime as well as work in a book store 36 hours a week. I am gaining weight quickly and starting back to a sensible workout routine based upon time requirements with the school/job and my body type.
Having said that, until starting school I worked at hard physical labor, ive pumped septic tanks, warehouse work, concrete and construction, farm work. It makes the body strong, stronger than most. As a septic cleaner you end up digging 3ft holes all day lifting heavy concrete covers or manhole covers, dragging heavy 6inch house hundreds of feet and lifting liftng liftng. 6inch hose gets really heavy when filled with wwaste. Concrete work, warehouse…its all the same constant repetitios lifting over and over and over. Funny thing about this is, as long as you lift correctly few ever get hurt from this. IF lifting is done correctly. I remember one job in particular where we dug a 6ft deep trench 12 feet long and 4 feet wide, by hand, lifting out buckets of dirt 100-200pound rocks from the botton and this went on for a few days, 8-10 hours a day. And we lived thru it and we wee not hurt.
So then as i look at crossfit training and am considering how to get back into an exercise routine Ive had some thoughts about this. While on the surface it would appear that 30 reps of a clean and jerk with heavy weight may seem injourous, that may not be nesecarily true. I would be if your body was not accustomed to such things. I am certainly not going to do that now, as I stit on my butt in school and behind the counter at the bookstore, yet where I doing warehouse work or concrete again i wouldnt think twice about it, and in fact we would do these sort of things for fun on the job, who was the strongets, who could caryy the most rock the fastes, how far can you throw those boulder out of the whole… but we where accustmed to that sort of thing. Now my body is still strong, but im getting flabby muscle strength endurance, cardio endurance is terrible so i am certainly not going to do high rep heavy deadlifts. im going to do whats right for me. I think this is something that is at times lost in crossfit as i understand it so far. Is a high rep heavy lift exercise bad, not by itself, no neither is random exercise thrown together over a week. Its what laborers do consistently every day. But…they are accustomed to it. And this is the key. the injuries that do occur in laboring jobs, occur afte layoffs, as a newbie is starting a job for the first time, as a boss decides he is going to “work with the guys today” thats when the injuries occur. The old timers, they guys who do this everyday…some of the strongest healthiest people you’ll meet. they practise crossfit 5-6days a week 8-12 hours a day, only they call it work.
CF honestly appears to be an internet show off site for peole who are not competition weightlifters or runners.
I watched a recent CF race video with room full of people racing deadlifts! This is exactly what Rippetoe instructs NOT to do yet they quote/reference him often. Starting Strength argues that open chain exercise will lose form after ~5 reps reguardless of what the lifter thinks they have done. And one bad deadlift can stop your life as you know it.
What I think Crossfit does is give people an in roads to effective movements and a different way of training. Most women would not be squatting as much as they do, or even touching a barbell if it was not for a program like this. What it is is Fun. Its group fitness in a garage gym with movements that are effective. I enjoy it. I see and understand the flaws though. I think most peoples bodies
I do not think I will ever high rep Olympic lifts again, not until I am strong in them. I think its a skill and not a high intense movement. I see the flaws in trainers who are inexperienced training people who are bio-mechanically unsound from being unfit, sitting for long periods and being inflexible then throwing them into high rep workouts without a build up. My martial arts students take things to failure and failure in my eyes is the moment that good form degenerates. I dont see the point of doing reps after that time.
I know a lot of boxes are changing how they do things. With linear strength progressions and practicing skills and making a more logical program that takes into account a persons need to progress. Some are even switching off the timer and allowing people to slow down and concentrate on keeping their form strict.
I think there just needs to be a better certification process perhaps that really goes into teaching people HOW to program, what the movements do and the science behind the training. There needs to be more education. Because, frankly, people give PT’s shit for their minimal training.
admin said,
“Even with extended training, no one is able to sustain true explosive power over a long period of time. Olympic lifts such as the Clean and the Snatch are dangerous to the back, knees, and shoulders when performed past the phase of phosphocreatine release.”
This is utter nonsense.
If you lived in a flood plain, would you stop slinging sand bags to save your home because, “sorry, my back, knees and shoulder are past the phase of phospocreatine release”???
If you lived in snow country, would you stop shoveling your driveway after 15 shovel-fulls because “Sorry, Macassistance says I must stop because the body is not able to sustain explosive power”????
If you were loading a truck with supplies such as sacks of grain, would you stop tossing the supplies after the 10th rep? Would you tell the boss man you’re done, you’ve exceeded your limit? When he tells you you’re an out of shape pussy, would you show him your CSCS credential to prove otherwise?
I’ve worked several hard labor jobs that required dynamic lifting for hours on end. The choice was to keep either lifting and get in shape or go home unemployed. You can’t seriously be saying that sustained explosive power is neither trainable and nor useful, can you?
I have the same CSCS credential. I also have a USA Weightlifting coaching credential, a USAW referring credential, and several Crossfit credentials. I’ve trained Olympic weightlifters, Crossfitters, rowers, and even world champion dancers. I’ve won medals in weightlifting, in rowing, and in running. At age 50 I surpassed the Navy Seal entrance swim test by some 30 seconds. I have some idea what I’m talking about. You sir, do not.
Well, Lincoln, once my back, knees, or shoulders have given out - yes, I’m going to say I must stop because the body is not able to sustain explosive power.
If all that you claim to have accomplished is true - congrats. Sounds like you have quite the pedigree, but your knowledge (or at least application of knowledge) is suspect considering the way our bodies react to explosive movements.
But I’ll be sure to send you an email the next time I’m slinging sand bags to save my home. Thanks for letting me know you won’t quit.
crossfit is total garbage it destroys peoples bodies on a daily basis. Olympic weightlifting is an OLYMPIC SPORT. They teach it to grandmothers, businessmen like it’s nothing. Without remediating weak links in a persons body these types of exercises almost certainly end up with injury, Look at the injury board on their website it’s ridiculous, thousands of posts. if people dont see it they’re in denial. How about the plyometrics they do?
Box jumps then stepping off? How utterly amateurish, this defeats the whole plyometric action behind the exercise.
As a CrossFitter and University student in Australia, where i study human movement and excersise science, i think some of the arguments posted by both sides are harsh.
I think the one thing that really needs to be looked at here, is how broadly have you looked at the CrossFit community Daniel?
My ‘box’ CrossFit Gold Coast trains professional athletes, 55yr old men and 20 yr olds alike. We all do the same thing, as for the athletes, one of the most nameable is Bernard Tomic, a young tennis player from here who although low ranked has qualified for multiple world class events. Crossfit is his personal choice of fitness training.
Crossfit will never provide the complete training for sports, it doesnt claim to. We train functional movements at full range in ways that can enable us to move the most weight possible, the fastest. Studies are currently being run examining the effectiveness of the CrossFit style of training. You ask why none have been published yet? because they take time, as you would know from your college professor friends (not an attack, simply a statement). Crossfit for athletes is simply the fitness component. The skills still come from the sport specific training obviously.
Going back to my initial statement, my trainer was a professional rugby player, as are some of the guys who train with us, others have weightlifting backgrounds but i think people often view crossfit as a bunch of people who view Glassman as God and follow his every word… we dont!
The way in which the Workout Of the Day (WOD)s are programmed by my trainer is done in a way so that we can increase strength, work the core and do a ‘metcon’ workout every day, these follow progressions where they may be short, heavy workouts to build strength or longer, bodyweight excersises for better endurance.
Small classes and constant supervision enables no loss of form, i do agree in some ways things need to change with the “CFHQ” site. This encourages people to perform movements without any coaching and that is very unsafe, but the crossfit affiliates nearly always design their own workouts.
As for the plyometrics issues that were raised by nick above. In box jumps, what exactly is achieved by jumping off? in plyometric movements the work is performed by jumping onto the box, explain to me what is a better option for decending from the box.
Almost done, but for scaling, scaling only ever is done by the person in question when they have limitations, if someone cannot do a movement safely they can decrease weight or if needed they can substitute (should someone be unable to run they can row etc.)
Never in my training at CrossFit have i seen any sign of a person substituting movements or anything that would promt the statement “But no real guidance is given as to how to “scale” a workout. If it is left up to the individual then they might as well come up with their own workout as well.”
Daniel, i am curious to know what your personal advice is to someone who wants to not only be able to lift heavy weight but also run fast and long distances? if CrossFit is NOT an option, what perse is?
All i ask is please dont say isolation excersises and long runs though or my current opinion of your qualifications will die haha